My mate Sam from Amazon is beautifully posh and spends 30-minutes chatting about the FBA aggregator business. If you're considering selling your brand at some point, it's worthwhile being aware of how it all works, most importantly, how to sell for more money.
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In this episode we discuss:
[0:00:01] George Reid: Welcome to us Always Day One. My name is George Reid, a former Amazonian turned Amazon consultant. Each week on the podcast, you're going to hear industry experts, brand owners and Amazon employees share their answers to the basic yet fundamental questions. You should be asking yourself, Bang your Amazon business. Now, let's jump in. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to another episode of It's always Day One. I'm really excited today to have my old friend Sam on the podcast. We work together, Amazon. For a number of years, Sam has gone much bigger and better things that I could possibly dream of. Um, Sam gonna give us a brief intro and explain to the world what you're doing at the moment. Then I'm going to fire some questions at you.
[0:00:43] Sam Horbye: Sounds sounds good. Thanks very much. George. Um, so, Yeah, I I am the co founder of a company called Ole Sam, which I've co founded with my my my brother and much taller brother Ali. Um, 6 ft eight, Um, that's it. And basically, what we do is we acquire, um, Amazon FDA businesses from private label sellers in the UK, Europe and USA. We acquire them, and we pay them a life changing amount of money. Um, And then we bring their business under our ownership, where we essentially have an in house team of PPC brand operations, supply chain professionals who then take this brand and then scale it to new to new markets with, like, new product launches, new biographies, um, potentially brand new channels, you know, your own website, and we're definitely interested in other other marketplaces as well. Um, but yeah, we're really a company who, like, acquired brand and scale them. Um, we're based in London. Actually, we just moved into a new office in Topical Road where it's completely empty, which is not too bad. Um, and yeah,
[0:01:57] George Reid: so you're out of interest. You obviously your Amazon. You did the fever tree gig for a bit in New York until you ran away because of covid. Um, you had a brand anyway. What? What made you have an experienced running your own brand on Amazon and then getting out, then decided to go? Actually, I don't lean back into that. I want to do something different. Was it what was going on around you? What exciting things were happening what was motivating that out of interest.
[0:02:26] Sam Horbye: So, yeah. So obviously, when I was at Amazon, I partnered up with with a colleague in mind. Then at the time to start a start, a brand. So we went to China, went to the Canton Fair, um, which is in which is in Guangzhou, this incredible city and in the south of China with just thousands of suppliers. So it kind of really, you know, learned you know how to interact with suppliers with factories. Um, Then we went to Shanghai, where we met the factory, and we kind of learned a lot about, you know, price negotiation, freight forwarding all this stuff. And I loved it, absolutely loved it and kind of off the back of that, you know, the brand. I was just blown away by the scale at which Amazon, you know, allows you to take private private label brands. Really? For us, it was a side hustle. So, you know, we still had full time jobs amazingly, and people always find so surprising, but like Amazon was really supportive of doing it. As long as you realize you're not spending every hour every day doing it,
[0:03:20] George Reid: they're actually really,
[0:03:21] Sam Horbye: really supportive, which I thought was really cool. Um and the reason is because certainly in my job and our job, when you're in the market, place yourself. You want to manage sellers, right? Like you're helping them grow their business. But the problem is, is that, you know, there are so many tools and features that, like, as an as an account manager, you don't really normally interact with, you know, things, you know, like like unified VAT reports and how you can download these in bulk And then, like, you know, send these to your accountant. Like, how does that actually work in practice is one example, Um, and and so just like starting this business was super helpful in kind of helping me understand all of us. What seller Central has to offer. It's an incredibly powerful interface, but chemical complicated. Um, so anyway, you know, I had a great time doing that, and then I thought, you know, I'm desperate to move abroad. I really want to get like you to America. Um, I had this weird obsession with New York. I just wanted to live in New York. Um and so you know, moved there in the summer of 2019 and just felt it was appropriate time to step back from the from the business at the time. So so sold. Sold it. Um And, um, yeah, I spent some time in the Big Apple, as you said, and then covid hit and the whole city shut down, Put the ended, Um, and that kind of led me to getting in touch with Ali and, uh, yeah, kick starting it also,
[0:04:42] George Reid: and given you have many different kind of routes to go down there, you can obviously go agency. You can set up another brand or you can kind of go this model you've gone with at the moment where you build out a really strong team who are who are passionate about building brands and then look to acquire those brands and obviously ultimately scale them as a quick and profitable way.
[0:05:04] Sam Horbye: What
[0:05:05] George Reid: was more enticing about that particular route as opposed to, you know, there's your property. Prior partner and many others we know, including myself, have gone along my agency side of things. What was what was intriguing most about this
[0:05:19] Sam Horbye: model. So I think it was when I when I look at like Amazon, we'll know when I look at entrepreneurs. Certainly the Amazon space. I'm amazed by how many hats Amazon entrepreneurs were when they get the business going, and even actually when they're running out when it's doing seven potentially eight figures, you know, they were PPC hat. They were supply chain hat. They were marketing hat. They were, you know, v A T tax accounting hats. It's crazy how many functions that these business owners run and they run really lean businesses. And what I found just from a this is just purely a personal personal point. And I guess why I wanted to do what I'm doing now is I Actually, I actually much more enjoyed the kind of running the brand and kind of tweaking and optimizing the brand wants to hit a certain point. I didn't massively loved the I guess you could say the really and I wasn't very good at it. The really hard yard at the beginning, Um, you know, um and and so I thought, you know, if we look at businesses when they're a bit more mature, you know, and you can look at the levers you can pull then that's what really interested me. And you can see some incredible optimization opportunities, whether it's through, like tweaking of marketing keywords. Um, you know, I also love managing and growing teams like I love having, you know, a specialist team. You do PPC I love a team that has, like, you know, brand operations functions. I like, I guess, being part of something a bit bigger. Um, So and I kind of saw about these these companies in the U S. Who are doing what we're doing, You know, um and I just thought what we're seeing here is like, we're seeing an emergence of a new asset class, which finally, investors are taking a look at. And, um, you know, finally, after many, many years, I mean investors. I think it quite were, like, quite wary of Amazon. Quite rightly probably. Um, but only recently have they seen this kind of like Amazon FDA brands is quite a valuable asset. And I thought it was just fascinating. And I think you know, we're really, really a day one of this space. I think we're going to see so much more money come into this space. I mean, we literally had to give an example. You know, the amount of capital has come in now can only acquire 0.7% of Amazon G M v of the marketplace like it's tiny. Um, so we're really a day one. So I know people. People talk about lots of aggregators coming entering the space. I think they're going to be many more. Um and so I think the opportunity to kind of jump in at this space now is just really when it's earlier. So cool. So that's kind of
[0:07:43] George Reid: why and flipping it around then and thinking about it from a seller's perspective. Um, this year, given how much attention is surrounding these FBI aggregators, what would make it a good period in time for them to sell? Yeah, So I think there really has never been a better time to sell them right now. And it's not
[0:08:06] Sam Horbye: like this is because you've got a couple of things you've got you've got. You've had covid, which is basically, you know, accelerated e commerce in general. But also, you know, Amazon FB A brand's not all of us. If you're in, you know, depressed categories, you know, you haven't had a great year, but you know it will be bound. But you've had probably one of the best years you've ever had. I think selling on Amazon so
[0:08:28] George Reid: we'll come onto
[0:08:29] Sam Horbye: this and why that's important. But essentially, it means the evaluation kind of is at the peak where it could be, um and then and then. Secondly, I think, you know, I think I think Amazon is getting really quite complicated right now. I think the tools and products are becoming more and more sophisticated. Whether it's PVC tools, um, you know, supply chain tools, products Amazon keeps on rolling them out. It's becoming harder and harder for a seller to keep, like, understand these. And then on top of that, you've got things like Brexit You've got, you know, complications around importing and supply chain optimization imported into the UK and Europe. It's just a headache. So you've got not only a bit of a operational headache part, but you've also got covid. So that's why we're seeing a lot of a lot of interest. So it's certainly in the UK
[0:09:15] George Reid: you touched upon it there about the evaluation. Please. I do agree. Most people had the biggest queue for hockey stick they've ever experienced, which is
[0:09:24] Sam Horbye: fantastic.
[0:09:26] George Reid: Um, and a lot of people get into this business and the conversations I've had because they started as a side hustle with some savings, they ramp it up to a certain point. Um, but ultimately, I know many people go, well, we ramp it up to a certain point, but I've still got this dream product, this dream brand if I had to do a clean slate and go all over again, so I do. Really I can see why. It's such an exciting opportunity to go. This is it. I've had the biggest hobbies together. I can get a really nice valuation. Um, I can sell, have a nice, clean transfer that I can start with a clean slate and remove all them hurdles. I know where they are. But then thinking about that valuation piece, how do companies like yourself? You know, how do you value in Amazon business? It's news to me. I've got some of our ideas that
[0:10:15] Sam Horbye: yeah, so I think like everything, every buyer is looking for something different, but I'll keep it is, you know, it's high level, rather as general as possible. So, you know, I guess two ways to two parts to an Amazon valuation of FDA brand you've got. On the one hand, you've got the sort of core financials. So you've got things you're looking at. Um, you know, the year on year growth of the business. So, like, year on year revenue growth, Um, you've got the profitability of the brand. So things like what we call the SD margin, um, which is basically your your net profit. But then you put an ad backs so things like, you know, any any kind of ad hoc spend that you've that you've done throughout the year. You can you can add that back in, and that's essentially your your your SD margin and that, you know, again, the highlight is the more valuable, you know. And I guess, uh, high multiple that will attract. And then there's things like, um, you know, the age of the business. So, you know, typically, we love to look at businesses that have some historic ALS that we can kind of go off. So ideally, that's between, you know, maybe 2 to 4 years. Um, that's kind of the sweet spot Anything younger than that Say, like, you know, a year or even, you know, we looked at businesses under a year old. There's just not enough history to see. And I'm sure you'd agree. Like, you know, you kind of as a It's helpful for us to see, like what a queue for looks like for a business or at least a couple of coupons, Just to understand how the business owners, like, you know, been able to manage the brand during those hectic times. Um, and and then, on the other hand, you know, you've got the Amazon, the Amazon perspective. So and again, this really varies from Biota buyer, and this is just not not. I guess I can give you my Marv you, which is that you know, we love basically all categories apart from I guess soft lines fashion, Um and, um, consumer electronics. And and And the reason is because and and and supplements. And the reason is because with the fashion, there's just a lot of there's a high return rate on on soft lines goods, um, with supplements. There's quite a lot of as I'm sure you probably found a lot of like regulatory hurdles of scaling of supplements business. You know, if you take a you know, us supplements brand and you try and launch into Europe, there's loads of it's quite quite difficult. Um, just because of just the general, you know, um, if people are ingesting products, there's a kind of various rules and regulations around that, um, and the consumer electronics is kind of very driven, I guess, by by quite sophisticated Chinese sellers. Um, we found, um and then things like, you know, having obviously fantastic reviews. It's really helpful to have what we call a really strong review mode and a differentiated product we love, you know, products and brands, which where the customer reviews are really, really, um, that they kind of tap into something quite unique about the product that makes it different. Um, and again like when we're doing due diligence on a brand, George will, like spend hours just trawling through reviews and just looking across there, and we bucket the reviews based on, like, you know, the various product features and we come away understanding. You know, these are the key three things that are clearly what customers love about the brand and then we check across other you know, the other guest page one to do these other products have that. And if they do and that's awesome, and then they've got something unique there. Um what? We're not sorry again.
[0:13:43] George Reid: I was gonna say interesting about I like the boxing of reviews idea just as a whole. Obviously, that I imagine using something like helium tends chrome extension to bolt. Download them. It's a valuable bit of a bit of advice. Anyway, for for those listening to go the value in studying your own
[0:14:01] Sam Horbye: reviews
[0:14:02] George Reid: and understanding and actually asking, you know, you've asked the question there of yourselves. But for brands listening to go, how often are we downloading our reviews? How often we're reviewing our reviews? Do we know what our buckets are? Do we deserve to be on page one or page two? And that is an interesting question. Not many people ask themselves enough to go, you know, Why am I? Why am I not going up the ranking short? Why and why is my advertising not performing well and then looking at goes well, what buckets do we have? Maybe we've only got one bucket where we're unique. But, you know, that just applied to the target. Few words We're going after it. So it's a good exercise for anyone. But I like your way of going about the buckets.
[0:14:45] Sam Horbye: Yeah, No, it's a really good one. And I think, you know, we're often asked what we're trying to, you know, raise money and investment for our company. Like a lot of questions we were asked by investors is how how are you thinking about R and D? You know of the of the business? And how do you constantly make sure that you're you're innovating? And I often think like Amazon customers are pretty vocal if they love something or they hate it. Um, and I think it's one of the best. Yeah, as you say, one of the best. Um, you know, um, projects or initiatives we do is to do these review boxing, um, sort of processes where we basically just are able to see right. This is what's great. This is where we need to improve. And clearly there's a problem here. Um and then you know, this is what other competitors are doing. What a great idea. Let's try and see if we can do.
[0:15:31] George Reid: And if we then spent a background to the seller who's thinking, right? This is something I'm interested in. This something I'd like to do? Is there another that they should be thinking? I should be patient here. I should wait. I should find my time. Is there a right time to sell? Given its just been to foreign numbers, looking great, like is now at the time this month or,
[0:15:52] Sam Horbye: yeah, it's, you know, it's it's it's such an interesting question is so well we saw a typical challenge we have is is you know, we we we have a business is really interested in and they say, Ah, but like there's so much more growth we can do like we're not ready to sell yet And, you know, from our which is which is fantastic, by the way. That's amazing. Definitely if you've got a lot of opportunity to scale it fantastic. But what I'd say is, you know, from an acquirers point of view, certainly ours, but also others as well. The exciting thing about buying a brand and what tracks are higher multiple is when there's growth opportunity. So you know and what we've seen businesses who they've maxed out, they pulled all the leaders, you know, they've they've gone d to see. They've got quite a sophisticated customer retention program there, on all of the marketplaces they're on, they're just they're ticking all the boxes. And then that means yes, is that there's a you know, I'm sure we'll have a good multiple on on the business. But then there's no more growth for us.
[0:16:47] George Reid: So they were like, Well, what
[0:16:49] Sam Horbye: can we do to, you know, to to improve it? So when is the right time just depends on the seller, to be honest, Um, some sellers have just had enough after, you know, a year and there's loads of growth to be had. Some sellers have had enough after 67 years, and they've maxed it all out, and kind of I think it really depends on cellar to cellar like when? When it's the right time for them. Um,
[0:17:17] George Reid: it comes back to that. That personal reason, I guess. And a lot of the people you're speaking to and you have much more conversations than I ever would, Um what what are the response? What are the personal reasons where people are coming around. That is it I want to buy. I want to be mortgage free or I'm tired of fighting, battling Amazon or, um, how messengers does my nut in the threats always too big of China or Amazon themselves. What are these common themes That you're getting motivations that are driving people
[0:17:48] Sam Horbye: we're seeing. So we're seeing It's a mixture. So on the one hand, you know, you've got quite personal reasons. Um, you know, we had a seller who, just for very personal reasons, really wanted money to, um to to go towards a family thing that was going on. So that was kind of one instance another. Another reason was, um you know, uh, sellers just want cash for another project. They they really enjoy the starting and scaling brands from zero. That's the bit they enjoy the most. Some one of businesses we purchased from wanted to buy a new car and put in a bit of a deposit for hours. So it's a real mixture, but also I think what we see is and in the U. K. This is and and to a degree, the U. S. Businesses hit a point in turnover where it becomes a headache to manage. Um, and and they and they they hit a crossroads where they say, Right, um, we either start investing in, you know, more, I guess headcount there could be full time or or or through VHS, um, or we just we exit, Um, and they're just operational complexities. Once a business hits a point. And that point, we found, is around, like, two million in turnover, um, 1.5 to 2 million, where it becomes less of a side hustle and more of a headache. That's basically how I how I would describe it and where they would just love help with inventory management, demand planning all the stuff that isn't that fun. Um, that's when they kind of come to us to, to to speak.
[0:19:24] George Reid: Yeah, I do completely get that as well. A lot of those brands where they can kind of get a bit of the headache. And then there's a slowly scale. Maybe they take on a virtual assistant. Maybe the virtual assistant then leaves them, and their work should creek without a paddle again. Um, it's very difficult. I think you know the advice would be kind of build that team slowly rather than go. We build it to a point. Now we need to hire immediately. You've realized too late. Um, what's your thought? That around when you are looking at team and going Actually, there is some good talent within this team. How do you approach that situation? I'm interested.
[0:20:03] Sam Horbye: So what we found overwhelmingly is that Amazon FB a business owners are solo preneurs. Um, they they've been able to run a business so lean, um, it's just them in the business or them in their business partner. So actually, like, we've never found it when they have, like, full time employees. Um um, but, you know, we've had it in the past. Where And this is I guess what? You know, we think business owners or Amazon FB a business owners are essentially, you know, they know the business better than anyone else. They know the needs incredibly well. They have a passion that is just incredibly strong for the business. They started from scratch. So where possible? What we try and do is keep them on for what we call like a like a migration period. where they can help us, you know, with product development product roadmap. Um, you know, skew prioritization, things like this. But overwhelmingly, they don't They don't really want to work for us, or they want to just do anything. You want to start again and do something else. It's not. It's never We've never really encountered an issue a point where they want to kind of join something like, join us up.
[0:21:09] George Reid: And is that that migration period kind of part of the deal? Do you gonna go right? We're going to pay you X. And for that, we're going to get the business on. Why? Dates? But you're gonna work with us full time for a month. How does that work?
[0:21:25] Sam Horbye: Yeah, So what we'll do is we'll when we present them with the letter of intent, the y, which is essentially our our offer, You know, in a document which says, you know how the deal structured. Um, you know, when will the cash be sent over? Um, you know, and then and then how long they'll stay on afterwards. How it tends to what we tend to do is you know, we try and understand from the cellar. What deal works for them? Would you rather as much cash up front as possible? And then, you know, a period of what's called an earn out or essentially, you know, there are Maybe there are various performance metrics that the business needs to hit. Basically, um, so that we have a, you know, a shared, um, shared incentives to grow the business together. Mhm. And then there's obviously, uh, what we call like, this kind of migration handover period. And typically, you know, we're very comfortable running the brand ourselves. But we like to keep that in place just so that, you know, these sellers have so much knowledge about their business that they may not realize. So just having them there on call. So if we can chat to them about various various points
[0:22:26] George Reid: and when brand owners are thinking right. Okay, I've made my decision that I'm ready to exit and I want to do it in six months time. Let's say we're midyear. Um, it's kind of July August. You know, that Q four was obviously going to be great. It's logical to probably think selling in the January phase after you've had a really good cue. For
[0:22:51] Sam Horbye: what
[0:22:52] George Reid: steps Can they be putting in place throughout that six month period? Other than making as much cash as humanly and profitably possible? What else can they be doing to go? You know, we're going to look like a pretty sexy bit of many if we're making loads of dollar low as a prophet. But what other things can we be thinking
[0:23:09] Sam Horbye: about? First one is having really clean books. Um, you know, if you don't have a fantastic accountant yet, so I would invest in one, So having a really nice clean p n l that you can essentially hand over to present an acquirer, Um, you'd be surprised by just how many business owners we speak to that don't have a They don't have a piano in place. Um, again, we can We can reconstruct these, but I'd say find a great find, a great accountant. We know a lot of a few in the e commerce face were fantastic. Um, and the next one is probably like, imagine, build out like S O ps into a playbook. So we love it when business owners are like, you know, here's what we've we've made a pdf of, um, you know what happens if a customer complaints about this or say, you know, your your shipment gets delayed at this port. There's, like a really it's a playbook. They can essentially give it to their granny, and they can run the business if there's an issue. Um uh, and that's that's like That's pretty. That's pretty pretty valuable because it means that, you know, our team can basically take the business and and and and run it from really as quick as possible. Um,
[0:24:19] George Reid: I was gonna say with with the P and l piece, do these those two pieces right there to go right? If if they approach you and go Hey, Sam, I'm looking to sell the business, and you're like, cool, and they send over all of their information and you're like, they've got their shit in order. They've got really clean books. They've got these S O PS. Does that impact your valuation? Are you thinking you know what happens to be a little bit more? No, we're not gonna have that headache in three months time when we haven't got an S o. P in place or where we've got loads of headache before making an offer just to get the P and L together because it's just a little bit cleaner and smoother.
[0:24:58] Sam Horbye: It certainly helps. I think you know the one thing where we are totally aligned on with sellers is speed. They're really busy, the super stress running their business. They probably got other things going on. The one the common point that we, you know, see a lot and and understand is like just speed of execution to come to a decision, agree on terms and and work together to get the deal done. Um so I think you know, speed is a big factor. If you know it's clear that they have all their chips in order that's so attractive. And what point I want to say is that when we look at businesses and and and deals, the seller is as important as the business and we've had situations where we've actually we've decided not to go ahead with the deal because we haven't felt that the seller is the right partner for us, whether that
[0:25:47] George Reid: because
[0:25:48] Sam Horbye: you know they might be and this is no fault of their own. But say like the unresponsive to emails or texts because they're just super busy with something else. Or, you know, they perhaps, you know, they they might have engaged in, you know, and still continue to engage in, you know, naughty tactics. Okay, people did it a lot awhile ago. That's what it was common. But now I think, you know, it's getting more sophisticated. You gotta be more careful. And so that for us, is a bit of a worrying sign. Um, so I think it's definitely like when, When? And and and it's the same for a seller, when they look at a buyer like, Do you get on with them? Do you actually like, Do you actually like them? Um, do you trust them with your business? These are all things that, like by sellers, really to think about when they work with buyers. So it's definitely it's a two way thing. This and it's It's such a personal experience that set aside the business fundamentals. I spoke to you earlier about like on a personal level. Is this going to work for both of us? Um, it's really important that both parties feel that they can work together because it is such a personal experience.
[0:26:49] George Reid: And you mentioned that speed of execution. What are you typically turning dealers around from first point of contact to offer Ego accepted.
[0:26:59] Sam Horbye: So from first point of contact. So, you know, this is first getting quite technical in, in, in, in the UK, we do predominantly share deals. So we we buy, we buy the company and its liabilities, um, outright, which means that the levels of due diligence are a bit a bit more than, say, in the in the US, where you're just doing asset acquisitions. Um, so from our perspective here, you know, we we try and close deals. We've done deals in, sort of, you know, from the first point of contact to closing wiring the funds. You know, we've done that in, like, 40 40 43 days. Um um and we you know, we try and keep it structured as possible. And obviously, in the UK, UK listeners, it's just a bit more. It's just here it's a bit. It's a bit more. The due diligence phase is a bit more intense because we are acquiring the company and outright, not just the assets.
[0:27:56] George Reid: Yeah, I like that. mate. That's I saw my questions for today. Um, but I'm looking forward to having you back on in six months. Time to see we were out there and how and how quickly it's evolving, because for me, it's such an exciting space to be him. There's so much news. There's so much content out there about this very new, exciting thing of. Okay, well, these FBI aggregators weren't really a thing two or three years ago, um, and then the likes of prosciutto, etcetera with these obscene number is going to throw it into the um But again, I'll be thinking personally, um, as as a brand owner, what sort of what sort of company do you want to sell to? And if it was me and my kind of my kind of selling my own company would I want that big, big giant taking it over, and it's just something to be aware of. Is that something I want for my baby? Because a lot of people we know who have gone set up kind of small side hustles into nice brands. You go. What do you want to become of that brand? And I'm building something else at the moment, the thought process, but just being thrown in amongst hundreds of other brands that, um, some of these bigger players taking on doesn't fill me with as much joy and glee as perhaps more of a a smaller set up. Which is why, with the power for us, everything small but more of a personal touch, um, that I feel you would get from elsewhere.
[0:29:27] Sam Horbye: Yeah, no, totally. And it's what again, as I said, like when you come to sell your business, you know, really think about who you want to be, the next you know, the next the next owner of it, and think it is it Is it an individual, or do you want a company? And it really is personal to you and there's no right or wrong. But again, like make sure you feel comfortable on a personal level that you actually you like that, that that that that group or that person, and that you trust them because what you don't want is for your baby that you spend years building up to be. Then just, you know, blown into the Ethan and it's a matter of months because they don't know how to run it.
[0:30:03] George Reid: Yeah, because I expect a lot of these people are going to be in a month refreshing that screen again. Look at the Instagram again looking at Amazon to see what they're doing. Oh, they've got rid of my best seller. The customers love that. I reckon it takes a long time to let go with that. So if someone is running it disastrously and there's lots of bad reviews, I imagine that's still still jabs you on the side, right?
[0:30:26] Sam Horbye: Yeah, Exactly. Totally, totally
[0:30:28] George Reid: good, man. Well, Sam, thanks so much for coming on, pal. And I look forward to speak to you soon, George. It was an
[0:30:32] Sam Horbye: absolute pleasure. Thanks very much indeed.
[0:30:36] George Reid: Hey, guys, just a quick one. If you are enjoying the podcast, I either have some actionable next steps or new ideas. I'd really appreciate if you could one subscribe to the show and leave us review. These are really, re
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