Florian provided me with unknown insights into Amazon Germany that truly came as a great surprise to me. Having built a software company in the advertising space over the past 3 years, in Germany, he's fabulously well placed to advise on ad strategy and Europe.
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In this episode we discuss:
[0:00:01] George Reid: Welcome to us Always Day One. My name is George Reid, a former Amazonian turned Amazon consultant. Each week in the podcast, you're gonna hear industry expert Brando it on Amazon employees share their answers to the basic yet fundamental questions. You should be asking yourself a bag, your Amazon business. Now, let's jump in. Hey, florid. How you Firstly, I want to welcome you onto the podcast. Really appreciate you coming on to the show. I've been looking forward to this one for a few weeks. Now for those who don't know, you don't give us that on the 32nd background on yourself and how you got involved in the Amazon world were both moving in right now.
[0:00:39] Florian Nottorf: Thanks, George, for having me pretty excited to be here. Yeah, I'm Floriane. Um, I got into Emma's and PPC three years ago. Um, um, we do this with reference our company and we are a bit management technology. And we found it six years ago, starting on Google ads on and developed a bit management technology for for this and but it was more or less finished after three years development. Andi, Still some improvements under the hood, but then we realized OK, what's the next next big thing? By the way? I'm drinking wine. Yes, you dio
[0:01:18] George Reid: and make it clear floor. It's 8 p.m. here. I have to drink.
[0:01:22] Florian Nottorf: Okay. Okay. It's just around noon. Uh, apologies with the distraction that no problem. Um yeah, And three years ago, we started looking into Amazon. Andi Amazing PPC and our started digging in And what's, um yeah, what is it is about what's so special about it. Um and yeah, I love it. I lost the The challenge is that there are and the concept off during the best performances all the time. That's my passion. That's what I'm doing all the time.
[0:01:59] George Reid: And at what point? He obviously started on Google. That one point Did you decide to go? Let's make that switch over to Amazon Wasn't quite an instinctive thing to do based on what your customers were pushing or what what drove that.
[0:02:14] Florian Nottorf: Actually, the customers didn't push that. It was so from a company perspective. He noted verse yourself and yeah, we had this single product. It's pretty awesome. That's pretty good. But it was eso we had the challenge or the option to develop it further or say OK, it's that's the product. You know, we can make improvements under the hood, and we're still doing this and maintain this. But, um, yeah, adding another feature, Wooden doesn't make any any sense. And so we ask ourselves why way we go that were very good at calculating stuff building. Ah, ah, but but following formulas and all this and we thought about okay, what is the next big thing for us? And so it was just internally driven, and we looked out and we looked at our personal behavior. So you on Amazon off course, all the day, um, and or something heavy fans from from the Amazon marketplace and platform. So it was obvious for us. And we Yeah, three years ago, there was nearly no tool around there, So that's specialized on Amazon PPC. That changed, of course. Um, but yeah, well, despite the Google, um, tool, where we were late adopters because, you know, girl is settled, and without it, we will be, um, were pretty surprised that such a success after, um, you know, the market was more or less there already. And now the market is developing and we are early adopters with our tool on Amazon PPC right now. And so it was pretty natural for us. We knew that we didn't want to go to social networks or anything like that. Andi. Yeah. So that was for initial First
[0:04:04] George Reid: against with. I think the software that's available right now is continuously getting mawr comprehensive. Right? And, you know, I've had some great conversations with people recently about how a eyes playing a bigger part in this, as well as machine learning and ALS sort of terms. I'm probably no intelligence enough to fully understand the meaning behind them. But where do you see kind of the automated side of the Amazon world going? Because it is certainly becoming a game change right now, businesses that can automate those tasks and processes that's becoming ever more important.
[0:04:40] Florian Nottorf: Yeah, absolutely agreed on that. So I think there are two options here. The one option is that you auto made the stuff that you do men. Really? So you are able to use tools that you set up any some rules that automate a task that you would do manually but the decrees about 10% because the performance is poor or, um, yeah, take a keyword here and put it there and something like that. So this is the one thing one development the other is on. This is where we are more or less focused on with, um, our to it's the to make it as easy as possible for for everybody because there are so many people out there that are great sellers that have great products. But we don't expect from them to you have the knowledge off Amazon PPC right into the depth. And you need to to be an expert. We have the best performance results. So what we do? And this is something that comes up, of course, from from others as well is that do you make it as easy as possible for for everybody to use your tools? You have just two targets. You of your margin and the everything else needs to be automated because you don't want to Yeah, set it up. Of course, there are some people that like to play around and be fully in charge of what is happening around each bit on and you're in charge of everything, but yeah, I see a huge trend and fully automate this. And but you need to build trust on that because the more you automate, the more it is a black box, more or less the more you need. Yeah, to gain trust for from from your former customers because you don't want the people to interfere with your intelligence with your algorithms. Um, so that's yeah, that's a challenge,
[0:06:29] George Reid: I think. And I think you know what the automation is. What's happened there that May one second I'm still on the audio, but for some reason, my camera's gone. So excuse that will turned off for the moment. Eso bizarrely with the automation. I think what a lot of people are utilizing it for is to essentially, how can they? Fast track process is right. And I think some people particular smaller sellers air coming on expecting these tools to be the answers to their problems. Is that something you're see a lot from customers. They're going okay, right. I'm just gonna plug this tall in, Andi. It's gonna give me results and thing you battle with a lot.
[0:07:12] Florian Nottorf: Yes, we see that. Definitely see that. But actually what? Yeah, they don't do their homework. Eso? Actually, they the second step before the first one. They don't get the products right. They don't have a strategy. What do they want to accomplish with Amazon? PPC. They have so many strategies that you can run your ads for product launch, self defense, a ticket customer, your competitors or just drive more sales profitable. And so, yeah, we have so many customers, sadly, or people that reach out, stood out to us and say, Okay, um, I have don't have a clue. I have some products here. They're decent, so just plug it in. It works, but it could work so much better if you just stay, take a step back, think about your goals and invest more in your product listing first, because the better the conversion rate on your program page, the better the advertising and and and so on and so on.
[0:08:11] George Reid: I think that's such a good rule of thumb that many look over, and it's certainly being a running topic throughout the 1st 11 episodes. I've done so far of People are very quick to think I wanna for a traffic. It's something, but they're not necessarily thinking about is that traffic going to convert. I think one of the one of the big things that I'm seeing an issue is is that sustainable success? You know, anyone on Amazon, in my opinion, can create some sort of success. Either throw throwing money in it something or doing big promotions. But what one things would you be doing right now or encouraging people to do to create sustainable success in Amazon?
[0:08:51] Florian Nottorf: Absolutely. I think it's one off the If you want to be successful in Amazon in the long term, then you have to, um, Amazon PPC Amazon advertising is a one off your most Isn't estate strategic? Um um, task for you, Just like sourcing products, just like any anything else that is in the core off your success. So you have to understand you don't have to do it manually, but you have to understand the importance off it, and you don't have just to throw money at it. And okay, I'm done. But well, you need a good understanding of what you wanna approach, and you have to take time or invest money for it on a continuously, um, you whether you do it yourself in house, you were with an agency over the tool whatsoever. But you, um, have a stroke. I need to stretch a strategy and a continuous one because it's getting more and more competent, competitive over time, of course. And the better you are and the better you understand the rule of advertising. And, yeah, the more successful you are in the end or all because we know okay, it's on Amazon influencia, organic cranking and so on. It's on. So um yeah, it's you need to. It's a strategic tasks, and that's that. That's one off my first slides every time I go on stage and talk about Amazon PPC first, you know, understand. This is such a major important topic. Um, eso it's just not, you know, you don't do it after after your daily work in bed.
[0:10:32] George Reid: Yeah, I think that's that's where you can quickly waste, spend and see way manage a few accounts, and I'm sure you do some sort of management as well. But I'm sure there's lots of wasted spends and lots of missed opportunity there kind of two big things that we see quite a lot, Andi. Sometimes you need to bring someone in tow handle that. Sometimes you need software. But a lot of people, when they are looking to outsource, can be challenging. Right. No matter what you're looking to offshore, it could be going off shore to do it. Could be bringing someone in house there to give the PPC the attention it deserves because it doesn't require attention on then that being said like, if you're in a position now and you're looking to hire someone for an Amazon brand, would you look to hire immediately for PPC Or would you be looking for another skill set to begin with in order to help someone ramp up quickly? Oh, that's a good
[0:11:28] Florian Nottorf: question. First you said something that I want O take on this thing that you I said, OK, some people are wasting money on do not doing, you know it perfectly. And actually you need those people right in the market. In the auction motor, you need the people that are wasting too much money because, um, yeah, this is that's how it works. And you just need to be ahead of them and unit. Ah, you don't want to be the one that spacing the money. But the other people can off course. So this why you always need to be a head off your competition and yeah, the sooner you start, the better. The second question. Okay, what would you be looking for? Is, um I would go with a ah, people. Yeah, I would go with a PPC guy, but you are If you are in charge off hiring and you know all all the details regarding margin and Amazon s CEO and all this, then you are capable off trained your PPC guy and give them the Amazon does is that he needs to understand the Amazon PPC concept, right? So it could be And to understand the interference with, uh with the and it was in the Amazon uni worse. So
[0:12:44] George Reid: on that, that being said that it sounds like you're suggesting to bring a generalised PPC person on board who understands that different platforms on, then looking to scale them up with damazin. Right? So that being said you when you're speaking people and when you think about Amazon, are you continuously thinking about? It's not just a one traffic or one paid traffic option. You've got to be looking at other traffic flows as well. Is that something you're you're fully invested in?
[0:13:16] Florian Nottorf: I understand the concept, and this is something that we don't do or we don't suggest. But I totally get your point. And so, um, there's something that makes so much sense. S So this is why it's so another argument for getting generalists to understand the overall concept off it and the possibilities on other platforms. Why you when you get your social traffic on Amazon and all the stuff? So, um yeah, I think that will be a good first Hire actually
[0:13:49] George Reid: focusing on ABS in general. Haven't going right. You can learn. So I think there's so much information out there. There's even if you just look at linked in in terms of an educational platform to teach people the content, you put out the content some other people put out. If you understand how bidding works, if you understand how weight and works. If you understand how exploring and experiments and with different placements work, then you've pulled that knowledge from Google. You pulled that knowledge from Facebook. You're much more light succeed in Amazon. But I think 11 big thing you know, we talk about it a lot now with members of our academy and anyone we could have working with off. Don't rely on that one channel for tracking. Watch one channel could be Amazon advertising. Right. And you could double down on that. You could be doing great on it, But one day someone could come along. Go. We're gonna be bidding more aggressively than you are for now. And your your whole business changes. So what advice would you give to people when it comes to looking up? Other travels to send traffic from And that could be organic or paid?
[0:14:55] Florian Nottorf: Yeah. So a step back, it all comes down to creating and need a brand. So that drives attention and then traffic in the second step so you don't have to be 100%. You don't have to rely 100% on Amazon to do so. So of course it like we die diverse ourselves with Google and Amazon Tool. You should do as someone who's selling on Amazon. Right? So, um, why not? If you have a strong brand, why not take a tick talk or I don't know what in stop? Ah, and create a good campaign. The drive traffic to to Amazon if you don't have a website and yeah, creates brand awareness. So yeah, this is this huge and of course, Amazon recognize that were realized. It is well right with Amazon attribution. That's coming so that there's a need for local people to attribute their sales from other sources. Traffic sources is so important, that s Oh, that's why Amazon, if you will be introducing and they already did, um is an attribution.
[0:16:09] George Reid: Yeah. And try not to get distracted by my awful camera. That player playing up, Yeah, Amazon attribution actually spoke Teoh one of the Amazon advertising team earlier on, and she mentioned the Amazon attribution was rolling out into Europe in the next couple of weeks, which is really exciting and kind of those. Do you have a solid understanding about having spent a little bit more time on the
[0:16:34] Florian Nottorf: online? No. Sorry, I would like to, but you know, we have to focus. But what I've heard and what I've seen so far just a little is is exactly that what Amazon leads. And that marketer and PPC nerds need to drive further traffic, you know, U Thiha Amazon. You don't want to hecklers, affiliate links or codes or anything you want a good, solid database and you can get this is my understanding within new Amazon attribution. Future that motivates you to put even more traffic on Amazon. So it's, um let's go.
[0:17:10] George Reid: And I think I think there's certainly a lot of it is around kind of tracking the sales figures you're getting from different channels. Whether you're setting up a Facebook ad been sending its Amazon, they're giving you more visibility on on that sales that are coming from those channels, which is which is brilliant because it allows you to to split, test right and go OK, PPC and Amazon is going great. We're maybe getting, you know, 50% conversion. But on Facebook, really getting a 20% conversion. Okay, so maybe we put more budget towards one than the other. But like with with all advertising, it's all about testing different things. Right? And, you know, you mentioned earlier on about you've got the self defense. The product launched competitive targeting as well. It's kind of the general driving sales, all of the different strategies available.
[0:18:00] Florian Nottorf: Sorry. I actually find it very difficult to test you to do a B test on Amazon. Do you have specific concept? How do you test different strategies? It's so I find it so difficult.
[0:18:15] George Reid: So, yeah, I would say I'm not the ads ads guy. That's certainly been other guests who are. But what I meant was, when the A B split testing comes from comparing Facebook vs Amazon, I think that's the test that you'd be looking at. Go right, let's put 1000 on Facebook. Let's But I found Obama's, um and see those results see what's obviously more lucrative. But I think with you've always got away up. If you are just comparing side by side, like for like on the number of sales, you also need to factor in that on Facebook. You're able to click touchpoints like email addresses before they go and buy like many chat subscriber before we go and buy right on. I think that's what's more interesting about looking further up. The funnel with the social platforms is you can collect a little bit more data. You can customize your customer experience a little bit. You can increase those reviews little bit. Should you witch on bats, Something in you have to factor in if you're making a comparison between which channel is more profitable?
[0:19:21] Florian Nottorf: The appetizer? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely agreed. And to do that So you get more data and you can use it on. Try to get if you have a website or around the Amazon ecosystem. So this something that you could try and so yeah, 1000 invest there and 1000 risk there is not the same. Even if the results are comparable, I would even then go with investment and social because, as you mentioned, you get more data. And this is this is key in the future because you want to send engagement letters for future purchases and autism? No,
[0:20:00] George Reid: and another kind of really interested. I want to drill into a little bit with yourself a lot of the clients that you're working with given your your based in Europe or a lot of those clients. European based, out of interest.
[0:20:12] Florian Nottorf: Yes, Yeah, most of us our companies are actually in German based eso come from Germany and but they do business, of course, worldwide and sell. When I was in a worldwide and, um yeah, what we what we see is, um you know, actually that they But they still focused on the European market and sometimes even on the German market only. And actually, I don't understand that because it makes it so easy to Yeah, go go public worldwide. Um, uh, yeah, I think there's, um, a lot off there. A lot of chances to scale revenue,
[0:20:53] George Reid: Andi, with those kind of the activity that's taken place in the German market right now, Obviously, if I'm cracked, it's still the largest market in Europe ahead of the UK. Are you seeing any different behavior that is taking place there? Are there any particular out types that are working well because I've always viewed Germany as a phenomenal opportunity because the barriers to entry of that little bit higher with the language challenge on many people balls that up by rushing it and translating instead of localizing right? Always view. Germany is kind of a fascinating marketplace, but lots of people say is daunting. Are you seeing any kind of different behavior? Is a rule of thumb from somebody who operates in that regularly toe what you see in the UK and the US.
[0:21:45] Florian Nottorf: No, actually, um, I don't What? No, actually, of course, compared to the American market, the German advertising market is underdeveloped under professionalized so far. So this is if you're American or you are a top of your game, then going to the German market is a huge, um, opportunity. Because there are people that, like the, um yeah, the knowledge off trying the newest things and on. And so I think you can be a first mover there when it comes to, um, Brent of video ads are now rolling out in Germany. And so they but But people don't. It will take a month until you know the theme. The big major brands come up with a good video for that. So if you are, if you're smart and you already did it and have your videos set up in America, um, just, um, that you have an advantage, Of course. Yeah,
[0:23:00] George Reid: that's that's quite odd. And I think that's certainly the same. Like a lot of marketplace, people are very slow to pick things up. But I'm surprised by that little bit from Germany because the size of the market on, because a lot of people you're working with So the data you've got are all Germans. Seems very intuitive to go. We'll jump on that straight away yet. Sure that's not the case.
[0:23:24] Florian Nottorf: Yeah, we don't have. You know, we are pretty successful, but we don't have access to and talk to every cell in Germany. So what we see is off course. We educate our customers and tell them how to where to invest in where they should focus in the future. But I see that major brands or slow the agency's sometimes are not performing well. Um, and so yeah, of course that
[0:23:56] George Reid: you say when you say agencies they're not performing well. Is that is that a European agency issue in comparison to global agencies? Oh.
[0:24:06] Florian Nottorf: Oh, no, no. I think it's a standard agency specific. My God s Oh, I have no data for that. Um, yeah, but it's still under professionalized this whole Amazon thing in most off the big vendors and they're so so many. There are so many smart sellers that are so fast, and they are moving so far off course, also in Germany that are always ahead. And so this is where they gained their advantages because their first movers and they're so fast. And are there so many major brands, and especially in Germany, I would say that it just takes too long and, you know, I need to be perfect. They don't do 80 20 and so it takes too long on. This is This is why I think it's a huge, um, chance for everybody. Tetra Tech of the German market. Because you have advantages of you are trying out cool strategies and on your for months because it will take a while until everything everybody's on board.
[0:25:18] George Reid: That's so interesting because, like, I think for years, even when working at Amazon, we were incurred. This was three years ago. We were literally encouraging people kind of Germany's biggest market. Get over there fast utilized pan eu in the FN when we were encouraging it. Then, from an internal perspective, people kind of like I'll throw some stuff up, but still in 2020 moving into 2021 Amazon's booming on. Everyone's just going. I'm just going to look at the U. S when you know, I imagine cost per click is so much higher than what you're seeing in Germany, right?
[0:25:54] Florian Nottorf: Yeah, absolutely. here at CBC is increasing as well here in Germany, of course. But compared to what you pay and in the US, it's it's cheap. Yeah,
[0:26:06] George Reid: And do you do notice? Like whenever I give examples fences And I always look kind of a in my structures amounting strategy way. That base layer is your operations, then brand and advertising and you go layup the layer No point of driving traffic toe a brand that isn't gonna convert right. And there's no point of making a sale if you can't fulfill it. But with the branding, I always actually looked to the U. S. First. Whenever I'm making an example of doing a quick Loom video, I go to the US I look in the consumables category, always a good one for great examples on diet was go there first with Germany. Are, you know, staying in that market that the content is still quite far behind in terms of the the branding elements have nice s storefronts are what they're doing with a plus, and whether or even utilizing
[0:26:56] Florian Nottorf: it thing is just a feeling, right. So what I've seen? No. But, um, you have it's far more difficult to find outstanding examples for a great content and great strategies in Germany than it is for in America. But, you know, and it's still I don't It's just a feeling, so I don't have any numbers. I am. Um uh, yeah,
[0:27:24] George Reid: you get it. You get a general consensus Don't like when your spending time on the platform. Often you always get a general feel like that's Reiser consumables and the US always a good one to go look at for good examples, I find that fascinating. The fact that there's still so far behind in the marketplaces like top three in the world, I think, isn't it? I remember the latest figures, but it is definitely top free. Last time I check on does so much opportunity there if we pivots slightly down on kind of a recommendation side of things and largely focusing PPC and you and I both see this a lot on Linked in and this recommendations everywhere, right? Everyone's an expert on linked in everyone's offering advice, but so many people like part of my job and part of your job is always eat like filter through the shit that's Onexim provides um, Valley when when we speak to people want a one. But that being said, what? What bad recommendations do you think you hear the most in your of expertise? It's obviously the appetizer.
[0:28:32] Florian Nottorf: Um, first of all, I would never trust only single source s. I would always encourage everybody Teoh not stick with one source and, yeah, look for different sources. And if then you see a pattern, Andi specific behaviors and best practices emerged. Um, and you are consistent. Then you can be pretty sure that this is a solid good advice. All you have your your trusted peers, of course, um, or a bad advice, How they're so it seems a religious discussion about whether to negate search terms on auto campaigns when you add them. Additionally, in your manual campaigns thing, this is no bad advise to negate them, I figure, adding them to know bad advice. But this a religious discussion about it if he was like so I'm pretty much a fan off, um, adding your keyboards and Emmanuel campaigns and exclude them in your and your outer campaigns to structure all your searches? Um, yeah, in a very clean way. So this is actually no bad advice. It still works. But actually that always Yeah, sets me up because you don't You want to be in charge whether trip where the surgeon goes on interest, a campaign or Annette group and not Amazon. So this is why I'm a huge fan off that, um, actually bet better advice? Oh, yeah, is that doesn't pop so much. Some soften up. But there's people that are so happy and celebrate herself so much when they say I am able to decrease the acres from 20 to 10. That's also it can be also, but it can be a very poor job if you, you know, cut the sales by a certain amount and reduce the overall profitability off your off your account. And so a a cause a C. O. S is not everything. So be yeah. Always think holistically and take the overall, um, Amazon account into into account when you evaluate your, um, your advertising performance. So this is something that I would encourage everybody to do, just not look at. So this is why, um well, if we go back again, you said okay. What would be the first hire? You would go with the I would recommend to go with a PPC, um, guy. And it also said you need to train them and give them an understanding off how the ecosystem works. If you just go with a PPC guy that says, OK, here is your account. Go for it. Um, it can be the case that will does a great job, but he doesn't have the full picture. You have to give them the full picture off your couch. So, yeah, you need
[0:31:40] George Reid: to think about it. I think that's something that's so often overlooked. But it clean different categories that that total a course is a turned mounded around the World Wide Web. But I think it is important to understand, like you're getting obsessed with a 20% a cross, for instance, and that KP I people are obsessed with. But you're not looking at kind of the macro factors like, what's our customer? Lifetime value. You know, I had a great chat with Josh of the day, and he was like when sometimes happy with an 80% a coughs. Most people are gonna shit the bed if you're like Oh, it's an ace, a cost, but he's going well. Each of our customers buys three more times a year. Eso It's obviously an acquisition cost and were happy to pay that on. When you start playing the game differently because you understand your brand, you understand the big picture. I think Thea, the whole appetizing thing changes completely right?
[0:32:38] Florian Nottorf: Absolutely agreed. Agree to that. And that's the main difference. Teoh. Actually, you should work on other advertising channels the same way optimized by customer lifetime, will you? Andi? But so if you have a good PPC guy that knows optimize, he asked the right questions then on or what is my overall long term target? What do we want to optimize for? If you give them that targets or you give your tools or agency bet targets, then, um yeah, that before overall performance will be poor. So we stood at the beginning, then off the discussion. You need to Yeah, do your homework, get your numbers right, and then do advertising
[0:33:24] George Reid: Onda pivoting again slightly on. But it's a little bit on appetizing, I guess, because some of the placements are now getting impacted. If you look at search so it's in the U. S. how Amazon have got their own special placement for their own products. That's really impacting things that in the search results right And we all know about. And those who find out about it as a brand is usually they found out about it because they're pretty pissed off because numbers never got a nice placement saying from our brands. But this brings beyond so question that I really enjoy asking, which is what do you think? The biggest threats. And don't let me sway you in any way from my build up to the question. But what do you think? The biggest threat to an Amazon businesses right now?
[0:34:10] Florian Nottorf: I think the government, actually, yeah, I would ever go with government because eso push pushing is they are Ah, monopolist. I don't know if that's the right word. Monopoly Monopoly. Okay? Yeah. Um, so and, yeah, we got in the year we had, um, some Google waas charged with billions off euros for, um yeah, playing this monopoly in a wrong way and on and they will do it again, I think, and Amazon will be charged as well in the future. I'm so confident. So, um and they will be charged with billions off dollars and euros. That's my suggestion. What? This is what I think. And I think this will, um I won't hurt Amazon at all like just a few billions, but I don't think that anybody else in the near future is able to, um yeah, to steal that big of money, as the government probably will in the future. So this is the biggest of money threat. But in terms off a business perspective, in the long, long, long term, I hope that we would see further market places like Walmart is pushing in the U S. Like auto is pushing in Germany or yeah, um, that we get more competition. But I wasn't so far away. They have so great infrastructure and invested so intelligently in the customer experience periods that they are so far away will be very, very
[0:35:56] George Reid: difficult. Forget them. Yeah, I do agree. Um, I think just the other marketplaces bubbling up and I get I get lots of questions about. I'm sure you do as well or not on that kind of point. I always get all should be looking at this. Should we be looking at this on. Typically, the people are seeing it haven't nailed one marketplace. And that's always, like shiny object syndrome on everyone has it that, like, right? I need to be on Walmart now. Okay. I need to be going doing this now on. I'm like you still got pretty dreadful images over there. Still, you conversion rates aren't the best. You haven't built an email list just yet, but you're focusing now on the next thing. I think it's very easy for people to get distracted and brands to get the strap did it off. What's the next new thing? Because you want the early mover advantage and I get that. It's the same with a new marketp
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