What does PornHub have in common with Quorn? Dave Officer.
Dave specialises in branding, graphic design & illustration. Taking your ideas and turning them into pure eye candy for your brand.
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In this episode we discuss:
Welcome to It's always Day one. My name is George Reid, a former Amazonian turned Amazon consultant. Each week on the podcast you're gonna hear industry experts, brand owners, and Amazon employees share their answers to the basic yet fundamental questions. You should be asking yourself about your Amazon business. Now let's jump in.
Hello, Dave Officer on. Welcome to the podcast. I think before, before you can make this a bit of an intro. One of one of the main reasons hours attracted to you. I didn't say this. During our little buildup, I realised his attraction. So I've gone. There was a slight, a slight attraction, kind of one of those over the Web ones could have a little a little bit of lust if you will laugh, even putting some great content out of the moment, which is very much turning cheek. And that really resonates with my personal brand On one of the things that can kind of got me on to you was when you suggested corn kur and the meat substitute. People should run with a campaign named Corn Hub that that would be quite a lot. I'm certain, he said, a lot about your personality. Then you carefully put a serious of logos from big companies on condom wrappers throwing their tackle hands in for good measure. You shouldn't do that. So if anyone listening is very worth a kind of glance over that, and we'll put some show notes in Dave Officer's profile linked in where you can get some comedy entertainment. But But day before I get into any questions, did you ever get a response from Corn regarding the kind of proposal from yourself? I
[0:01:35] Dave Officer: did. I did. Yeah, she did. Yeah. So that was about I want to say, nine months ago. So prior to that, I had started putting the load of content on linked in and thought right, I'm gonna give this a shot because I'd actually I've had a little look around and I didn't see a lot of people who did the kind of thing. The idea, which is graphic design and illustration. I didn't see a lot of people on that platform utilising it well, and I thought right, it is an opportunity is gonna be an opportunity. So I started, but I don't like just So all I was saying was people they do some work, you know, They do something for a client or do something personally and they just stick it up and go here. Here's the thing I did, Isn't it great? And no one cared because no one does. So I thought, right, I'm doing stuff like that. Doesn't sit right with me anyway because it's just, you know, just like showing off for no purpose. And who's going away? Yeah, No one's gonna care. So I tried to do things a little bit differently, and I tried to think of some little quirky things and I was on the platform for maybe, like, three months, 34 months with tumbleweeds. You know, not much was happening, but I thought, No, I'm gonna person. I'm gonna persevere with us. There's something in it on DH, everything was getting, like, 23 likes and 23 comments or nothing at all. And I was like, No, I'm gonna stick it out on then. I was on holiday. And don't ask me why this came into my head. Right eye was on her way out and that I had the idea in my head to do some parody advertising campaigns. Limes and
[0:03:12] George: it's stressful week something was it?
[0:03:14] Dave Officer: Ah, no, no. We had rented a villa in Tenerife. Play like a private thing and we weren't going to go and see any humans. We would literally go to stay on top of a mountain and not speak or see anybody for a week. It was beautiful. Mizzen on DH. I'd had this little idea, but when my head think of some parody ad campaigns, I wasn't eating corn. I wasn't watching porn and for some reason that popped into my head. And so I could maybe do something without a mother. A mock up the point website is if it's cord and I'll do some videos, I'll do some posters and just see that literally. Prior to that, not not much had happened and I put it right on DH. It started getting quite attraction quite quickly on DH. My inbox started filling up rapidly with people I know well, firstly, people saying This is something I hadn't considered with Lincoln. When you put something up there that's a little bit riskier is a little bit spicy, that's a good word. A lot of people are very, very protective of their personal or if they're working for a large company. They're very, very careful about what there seemed to be liking and interacting with. The first run of messages I got were from CEOs on DH Ah, like FDs and all that kind of stuff that we're like, Def. I absolutely love what you've done. I'm messaging you privately because I can't be seen publicly to like it. But I love it. So a lot of it was that. Start with. Then I got one from somebody who said, Dave Officer, I've just seen your corn hub thing and I absolutely love it. I know some guys 1/4. Would you mind if I made them aware that you've done this? Yeah, I do it. I said, As long as I've got a sense of humour, I haven't done it because I think they'll take it and run with it because I know they won't. It's completely in line with Brandy. Not all, not all. That's not why I did it. So he said, Yeah, I know a couple of guys over there. They've got a good sense of humour. I think they'll enjoy it. And then about 20 minutes later, um their official way business. Page commented on the Post itself, and it said something along the lines of Dave Officer. Thanks for your idea. It's a little bit too fruity for us or something along those lines, but, you know, we won't be running with it. But we really appreciate you. You know, it's given us some giggles at corn tars. I think they said something along those lines. I was like, guys, as long as it's giving you laugh. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. What was that? I don't know. How did you know that? Maybe that was a mine. And I heard a really weird noise. M S O k. They did it. And then all of a sudden, it went absolutely mental and got close to a 1,000,000 views. And I got home right. I got a tonne of work off the back of it is Well, I know it's gonna be my question. Teo, did
[0:06:13] George: you literally get loads? Just threw that? Yeah, there were no clearly different noise
[0:06:19] Dave Officer: and bury the mind. I had literally zero attraction prior to about It was it was building up. But it was it was nothing special that one thing kicked everything off for me. I think I struggled to get on top of my inbox for another two weeks after I posted it. Just It was so much going on. I didn't say loads working overtime. Before that, I had never received a single lead from anything social media related, So I wasn't even sure it was possible. But I made you believe that mean that gave me the confidence to say right. I've spent quite a bit of time on this night, and I know that it's worth it. I know that if you do something that does resonate with with quite a few people, this Khun, this could really work. So after that, I thought right, this is time. I can take this seriously. Nine, I really, really knuckle died on it and kept with that sim that similar sort of vein of showing things a little bit, showing what I could do but a little bit differently than just the bog standard sort of stuff.
[0:07:23] George: Do you think? Do you think that applies to all brands? Because somewhere you got your personal brand right, which I believe is kind of what Lincoln is do you think brands kind of really understand what they're their own voices, what their own tone is and always run with it. Rather than thinking What is our voice? We try and make a new one to attract that person because ultimately any brand comes from their voice comes from the owner, who then kind of drills it down into the individuals who were working there. Um, would you kind of say, from from that experience, your obviously personal brand voices to be a little bit risky, a little bit playful asshole is thinking outside of the box having a bit of fun with it. Other brand should be certainly following that, perhaps not to the same degree, but behi kind of. Why not have a laugh? Is that Is that something you kind of talk about when you're working with brands now or
[0:08:21] Dave Officer: yeah, I do try. And if anybody comes to me to try and think of ideas for what they can do in there market, I mean predominantly. Obviously people come to me to design stuff, but when they wantto put like a carousel post together or they wanted to put a campaign together, they want help me design. They want me to help design. They're generally is a conversation around. What can we do that's a little bit different on DH? It's It's too. It's almost too easy. A lot of the time. I think, Ah, lot of people will advise brands to do something a bit risky. Onda little bit quick, a little bit, sort of swear e and, you know, try and be way. It's almost too easy doing that. And if what's worked really well for me is injected a bit humouring, it doesn't necessarily have to be, um, spicy or risky or any of that kind of stuff. But if you find a nice balance, what's worked really well for me is finding a good balance between teaching people things on DH, entertaining them. And so a lot of this sort of carousel posts that output. I will just be teaching people hide issued, apply colour to their designs, or how they can match fonts with each other and how they can use white space effectively. And that kind of that kind of stuff if you, um you have a nice balance between that kind of stuff, which is genuinely useful and It's really good. Resource is in there. And then the next time they're saying you you're just doing something daft. It's actually that's quite good. But at the same time, while doing it all, I'm showing that I can design stuff at the No. I've never Once. I think a lot of a lot of people make the mistake of just being very blatant about. Here's what I do. I do this, this, this, this, this Andi again. No one really cares. I've never once put anything that says, This is what I do. Um, yes, that's all written on my profile. If you like stuff that I'm putting, you can go and see what I do. And that's what people do there, like something that put out cheque out the go. This is what he does, and then they'll get in touch. So I'm Yes,
[0:10:36] George: I guess that brings me beautiful onto which would was supposed to be my first question. Let's go for a quick 45 seconds intro on what you do, Dio Tele, Steiff, Philip Do touching it briefly, you do.
[0:10:52] Dave Officer: Here's what I do do. And so I am a freelance graphic designer and illustrator predominantly help Browns with their logos and their visual identity on and do some Web design, and a lot of it's turning mohr towards and social content. I think one thing that, um, covert has told a lot of people, although they were all aware that they should be taking their digital presence seriously, I think this is kicked. It kicked it into a lot of people a lot more ferociously than you know. They potentially realised before. If you don't have a good digital presence and something like this kicks in, then you're on the back foot. So when all this kicked off, I thought I was concerned that work would drop off a cliff to a certain extent because, you know, well, everything's falling to bits, but it's been quite the opposite, as people have realised. Actually, no, I need to get I need to get my cheque in gear and get some, get some design collateral going and get my social profiles up to speed. So there's been loads and loads of digital content created, so I'm Yes, it's like the illustration work. Um, it's probably that probably covers, like, 50% of what I do so love a branding on some social stuff. And then the rest is old illustrative work, which is my is my first love.
[0:12:16] George: Yeah, nothing certainly sense that from from some of the content you putting out at the moment, I think one thing you touched on there, which is something I had a discussion with another plate recently. Ben was visual identity and our brands, understanding their identity and having what we were saying was about the consistency across different platforms and ensuring the identity is consistent. So when we're talking about the Amazon world, are you just going right? Let's just throw some stuff up or is it? Is the message consistent with what you're seeing on the website? Is the colour scheme consistent is thie style and everything consistent to the website, too? Ah, a storefront that you may have in store or on the social profiles. Is there that consistent message that visual identity that you're talking about? Is that something that you're also kind of really reinforce into people like consistency?
[0:13:11] Dave Officer: Yeah, yeah, So with a with visual identity work generally off the back of it, there's a document created which will break all of that stuff. Dime, you know. So if you have certain brothers, the few that I've done recently and they they have split their audience into, like, three different sort of segments. And so when you're talking to this part of your audience, you'll use this colour palette. You'll use this language, will you? So generally you put together what is essentially becomes the brand's Bible on. They know, no matter how many employees are there, they know how you know what to apply, Tio, what they're doing and who they're speaking to. You and Bubba Bubba. But the main point of it is to become, um, when you have everything consistent with the tone of voice, of the look and all that kind of stuff. Because we are so bombarded with the information of messaging, I think it was something along the lines of. If you go back about 15 16 years, you had to be seen maybe four or five times before someone would start recognising us. Yeah, getting again in that point where people know like and trust you, which is the ultimate goal. But you would only have to appear in someone's fear about four or five times for them to start taking notice ago. These guys have seen these couple of times. NY That's quadrupled its closer to 20 times. You have to appear on someone's radar before they'll even start really taking notice. And so, in order to do that, obviously we go back to the whole thing about entertaining and educating people. But you also have to be consistent with how you look because they need Teo. They they've already seen you 1918 20 times prior Tio, when they have that click moment of. Actually, I do like what these guys are doing or when they actually need whatever service or product that is that you're offering. They've seen you enough night and recognise what you've done enough for that to click in when they actually need. What is you offer
[0:15:14] George: on that said that we talk about kind of with regards to. There's a funnel on Amazon new commerce world as well, where you've got them people at the bottom ofthe that point where they're red hot. The problem were solution away, ready to buy, and they go somewhere like Amazon to make that purchase. What you're talking about is that top of funnel where they're not necessarily problem. Aware, aware you're hitting them with it. Could be ants. It could be social content. It could be email. It could be linked. It could be anything but any touch point. If you're no consistent throughout that funnel, they can quickly drop off. Right. If you're going right, What are brown colours? Are this at the top? And that's what we've done. Everything on on down the middle when they're perhaps becoming more probable, where you suddenly change your voice, changed how you communicate with him. Everything changes them, I guess. Increasingly likely from dropping off. So exactly, Brandy used to really, really understand. And I think you really interesting point there with e segmenting up. Who you're speaking to on that could be a type of customer could be at what stage are in that in that customer journey as well. So if they're already on your email list, they're aware of you a little bit. Mohr. Perhaps you communicate slightly differently. Perhaps you have slightly different tones,
[0:16:29] Dave Officer: right? Yes, exactly. Yeah, you will talk to someone differently who you're trying to introduce. Tow what you do. A supposed to someone who's already very aware of what it is you offer, so you do need to switch up
[0:16:42] George: on that. That being said, I think one of the one of the biggest challenges I'm hearing, So we want to run it, run our academy. We got lots of members inside. I think one of the things I push graphics and content so much at the moment of building out this I call it a brand moat, like building a moat because you can have the best product in the world. But without any brand, you can quickly have it snatched away. And that certainly applies everywhere. Yeah, so one of the issue, I think that they always come to me and say is like, How how can we get that perfect? That's all I know. I think I speak to designers Well, myself and I have the challenge of, like, just getting my message across. Is there anything you kind of kind of recommend of light when they're opening up that conversation with someone like yourself or someone offshore as well, which is becoming increasingly more common? Is there anything they can do to make that process a little bit easier to ensure that there the ideas are passed across well, to make it a better experience for you as a designer as well.
[0:17:48] Dave Officer: Yeah, Well, what helps massively from my point of view, is if a company has their messaging in their tone of voice sorted first so they'll know who they're ideal client is, they'll know exactly who they're talking to. They'll know what they want to say to them. Once you have your sort of ideal client base in your mind, You Khun really drill in to who that person is, you know, what are their interests? Was that marital status? What stage they're in life, do they own property? You know, they into what sports they into, Where that where their political leanings like you can really drill into that sort of demographic there you're trying to tap into. And once you have a really good idea of who this person is or these people are, then then you craft your messaging around that, and this is exactly the kind of message that will resonate with that specific person. And once you have that, I mean, I know there's a couple of guys that I know when I recommend to people who are absolutely amazing at sorting that stuff for people because generally, once you have all that sorted, then the design stuff want the well. Certainly they marry together much better, and you have a whole cohesive brand that comes off the back of it. But it's so, so much better to start from that foundation. When you come on coming up with the visuals and you end up with a much better product at the end,
[0:19:18] George: I think that's that's the same. So whenever we're creating any type of content, so we always look at things that title's bullet points, et cetera, as kind of the copy side of things. Well, you always say that you're speaking to that target Avatar. I think one thing a lot of people don't spend enough time doing, particularly the early stages. They're always excited because they've got a new product. They want to get out there. They want to start selling, but they're never really drilling down into who that target first worries, and like you said, kind of what websites they're going on, what blocks there read what instagram accounts they follow on DH doubling down on that will be interesting to get in the show notes as well that the recommended contact for you? Because I've I've never heard it. Someone who makes as their profession. So be good to kind of get a get a referral on that side of things as well. Yeah, I think it's something people glaze over a little bit. Um, perhaps rushed through on DH. It's certainly something you could include. Before you've you've been got that product, you wanna be doubling down on it. It's part of the validation, right? You gotta validate who
[0:20:19] Dave Officer: are memories. I think it's one of those things that it doesn't, especially when you're starting out. It doesn't feel productive things like that, which is, I think, why a lot of people clears over when you talk about it or they speed past it because the temptation when you're starting out is always trying to get things to happen fast. And if you have someone ah, working for if you hire someone who's going to sit and strategise and really think about this stuff and then at the end of it, all you're left with is a load of text can feel out chase that woman doing? Why Wasting time I don't about. They're selling. Ah, it's It's so so important because you are literally you're building. What's that analogy you build? A house on sand is not what it is. You literally laying. It's literally laying the foundation for you to build everything else on. So although it can feel like a bit of a waste of time when you're trying to just run when you're getting started, getting that tone of voice and that visual stuff right, everything else will make sense around it.
[0:21:28] George: Yeah, I think it's true that we tell people like your your content so valley. But you contentedly have beautiful images. But if it's completely wrong with the guards, they're targeting the message. It's like going with bright young pink colours, which perhaps would be traditionally seen as targeting someone who's a bit younger. Ah, young girl. But then your product is some kind of very masculine item. It's always not gonna be quite right. So you write is laying that foundation so you could have brilliant images. But if all the targeting is wrong, no matter how nice they look, you know, quite reach out and grab that custom about the throat, which is something we've used before is a bit of an aggressive analogy. Yeah, And I think with with that being said, what do you think? One of one of the biggest mistakes that brands are making right now with their content, because that could have touched a little bit where they get the message quite wrong. But you say any of the big things that many brands that kind of cocking up on,
[0:22:33] Dave Officer: um, for me, it is literally just, um, not fully grasping the concept of giving Maur than taking Certainly initially so giving information, giving value, you know, sharing resources, just just just sharing things. Um, a lot. I still see it quite a bit on length. And I kind of like what I mentioned earlier on just people telling other people what they do with no riel context behind it. No real value behind it. No real purpose behind other than they've got themselves on social. And they want Teo raise awareness of what they're doing. So they try it the fastest way they think they can do, which is just here. Here. I'm here on DH. Here's the thing I do on you should probably by that, because, you know, because then I can eat Fuck, yeah, yeah. I mean, actually, if you put a poster like that, it might actually work thing. Do it. Do it so I can
[0:23:44] George: eat. Get child's hungry. Here's a picture of her. Some dinner?
[0:23:50] Dave Officer: Yeah, I thought I'd be honest today. Here's a picture of the hole in my socks I'm currently wearing. If you help me buy new socks, that'd be great. Yeah, it's all very There's not too much thought in it. And I think it was the thing that kind of freaked me at the beginning because I could tell Coming up with the ideas for content has never been an issue for me, thankfully, but a lot of stuff that I do think of is quite time consuming to put together because I'm my own worst enemy. So I knew when I was starting to think of loads of ideas for things, I was kind of looking at the mall thinking this is gonna just gonna take some time. It's gonna take some time to get traction on this stuff, and it's going to suck it, take some time to put this all together every week, and that was kind of the scary part. I thought, because I'm a one man band as well, I thought, I'm gonna have to take time out of what I'm doing that directly earns me money. Tim put this content together that for months won't necessarily bring me anything back. But I've gotta have faith that if I keep at it and keep hammering away at it, eventually all of this work will will be worth something on DH. It has been,
[0:25:03] George: and that's, I think, some of it as well, but depends the exact type of product that you sell. Obviously, it's different when you're selling a service. It certainly applies more. But if we're talking a little bit about tangible physical items that people would be looking to sell on Amazon for argument's sake, it's delivering round you to those people in your email list over and over again. You can't just go 10% off, 10% off, 20% off, 10% off, like that's it's the same message is a quick one sure way to kind of get dropped into junk, whereas if you look at what you know that one of the best things. I I find him. He's just following and getting part of other subscriber subscribing to other people's email lists, complete taps, competitive brands, perhaps big brands, perhaps brains you like. Even if they're different category and seeing what sort of content they're releasing in a minimalist, are they sharing storeys that are in some way related to the product? Are they talking to their customers and getting them on a block that they're right? Are they writing valuable stuff? So it could be, if you're in the makeup industry continuously releasing new stuff, which could help your skin feel healthier, and it's quite natural on its swimming in the sea? It's got nothing to do with the other thing, but you're looking to deliver value rather than Hey, it's black Friday we've got a massive 40% off. I think that's another big thing. You're building trust right on DH, your belly, a Connexion with that person, Brathen. Just trying to shop that sail down the throat and there's a time and a place for that
[0:26:36] Dave Officer: definitely is. There definitely is, but it's It's certainly in the minority. I think that again and again and That's part of the reason that a lot of people and probably are apprehensive about the content thing because it's no a quick win at all. You know, it's it's it's the reverse. It's a long term game, but when you when you give it the time on DH, once you get over that sort of that initial hill of, you know just building up, so you've got enough people on seeing it, then once you get over that hill, it's it's grand. You almost. I got to a point where I decided creating content was a priority for me because I knew the impact it would it would have on the impact it's still having on once. You kind of wire that into your head that it's it's a massive part of the marketing for my for what I do, so I make it a priority every week to make sure I have time set side Teo create content for the next week, the next two weeks, whatever it may be. Once you shift your mind to thinking about that, it doesn't become the chore because for me, I've kind of set up for myself, know that it's something I really enjoy doing because it's a chance to be completely creative with a blank slate in front of me, right? What am I going to do tonight and just have some fun with it? Yeah,
[0:27:57] George: I guess it's kind of going right. I'm sat at home at the moment. I don't know about you guys in the UK, but coffee shops are open here, so I always like I'll go down to the coffee shop. I'll take my headphones. I'll pluck in. I'll find a topic that I've been thinking about recently. I'll boss something. I'm more writing them. But see, you're more creative with your hands. But whatever it may be like, if you're building this brand, you need to be thinking of these different trigger points, for instance, which resonate with your customer and how you can build topics. Build conversations, build content around that so you can continuously update the block, right? New social media posts. But I guess one of the things we nicely at another point is as a brand owner right now. What would you be recommending is a first step if they don't have an in house graphics, a cop, a writing team, but they do want some great content. Is it? Like you said, there's gonna apportioning up time every week? Or is it looking tow offshore It?
[0:28:58] Dave Officer: I think I'll be different for lots of different people, depending on where you are and where you wantto put your put your money's on DH, there are a tonne of free research. I mean, I could give you a load of links if you wanted to share them at the end of this. For places you can get really quick information on what fonts work together. You know I can show you legs for places you can get free icons to die mod free illustrations to download on DH Obviously can. VA is a great app for people who you know you don't have great knowledge of design, but they can throw some things together quite easily for it. There's tonnes of the sites where you can get free. Stark imagery, Free illustration, Free Fahd's free icons, all that kind of stuff. And you can put that stuff together the templates on there where you can just change some of the funds and change some of that you can end up with something that's halfway decent on. Be honest. When you're starting out, you don't have to. You don't actually do myself a lot of work here, but it's true. You don't actually have have something that is completely polished on DH and shit Hot You Don't you love you as long as you're as long as what you're delivering is interesting. And it's this just popped into my head because I just heard my dog bark downstairs. If you if you were selling Hey, if you were selling a pet product, for example, something that cleans the dog's paws say, for example, you think you're thinking to yourself what hike? What can I actually write about this thing? All it does is clean my dog's paws, and you think that's kind of the sticking point. You're like, There's only so much I could do with this content wise, how could I put content every week that's related to this on? The answer is, you don't have to you, your audience or a bunch of people who are absolutely obsessed with their dogs, so you're content for most of the time, we'll just be dog related. It doesn't have to be anything to do with what you're selling, but you're always there as the person who posted it. And you know that, though they can always go back. Teo, whatever it says in the in the bio, the link to your site or all that kind of stuff. But you know, just once every couple of weeks there's something that's directly related to what the product is you're selling. But everything else is stuff that that audience will actually resonate with its stuff. You know, videos of dogs or videos of competitions you've set up with dogs running to catch something and just little things. They're different.
[0:31:31] George: I think that's that's an interesting point where the perhaps they're digging a little bit deeper. If you're struggling to come up with content yourself and you are directly managing all of that content creation process, or even if you've got a VA or someone in your team in their struggling, it's always looking at that initial kind of Bible to be set up where you've got the graphics kind of Bible that you mentioned earlier but also the the target avatar Bible Go where they're hanging out on you. Is it a Facebook group for instance, on looking at the user generated continents all it really available or in an ideal world, you You've got your own Facebook group where there is user generated content, which is great, and you can put that on social and email. But looking, whether hang on, kind of drawing from that kind of content barrel, if you will, to go out and go right, let me play on this little bit. Let me use that kind of the seed idea and go off in that direction because you know it's gonna resonate with them because they're literally writing it themselves.
[0:32:30] Dave Officer: This is really good, and there's a couple of good tools that I use and recommend to people if they're struggling to think of any ideas for content, right? 1st 1 is Facebook insights. Have you ever used it? I actually haven't Facebook insights is great because that site knows everything about all of us, right, And there's a point where that is a point where that is terrifying, but this is actually really useful. So I think you need to have a Facebook ad kind in order to access this. But I think we left. I think If you just type in the Facebook, I think it is jus
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